Dialogues on Wretched Refuse: Fear and Loathing in the Old Country

Attribution: Photo by Ggia, dust spots/scratches removed by Kim Hansen. Edges cropped due to scan. Further restoration improvements using masks by Ggia., CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons

Featuring the Fabulous Dadbots: Dave S., Mark M., Mark O., Dennis C., and Geoff Carter

ICYMI: In the UK (3) kids were killed (stabbing), then an “SVB” bank run/George Floyd combo event happened: (One bot’s take). Social media sent out some terribly wrong information that the killer was a Muslim immigrant….just off a boat. All BS. Killer was born in Cardiff, Wales, a British citizen. Link below about the 17 yr. old if you are curious. Cute kid who was attending a Taylor Swift dance thing (Taylor not there)…something must’ve sent him off. He stabbed another 10! His parents are from Rwanda, and his dad drives cab. As riots were occurring Musk stoked the flames stating civil war is inevitable. Imagine the gatekeepers of our youth spewing out crap like this. Cronkite, Rather, Jennings…. (Huntley and Brinkley anyone?) What if these guys popped off like Musk, (or Trump or Nigel Farage—more on him in a minute), when reporting on Vietnam, Kennedy assassination, Cuban missile crisis, or Selma marches?

Another bit in case you’re not up on UK politics but Labor (Keir Starmer) has just replaced the Tories (Rishi Sunak). The Tories had a long run (into the ground say some). Oddly, it was another sudden vote for new government—like the Macron gamble in France, but the reverse. France held off the populist mob, whereas in the UK the populist-ish party was jettisoned.

Killings occurred in the southwest coast city of Southport. Sunderland is on the northeast coast. Riots happened all over.

Summertime, I’ve observed is when riots happen….’not the heat it’s the stupidity: George Floyd (2020), Ferguson, MO (2014), Baltimore (2015)…now the UK. In both Floyd and the UK it is reported “thugs” were the catalysts. I believe that. Too many out there looking for A. A good fight and/or B. Some cheap goods (cheap as in free via storefront bashing). A slaying like this is a green light to don a mask, text some buddies and head to where the action is. Once a mob is formed one has near total immunity. Will cameras be able to do retina scans to punish those that hide behind ski masks? Sunglasses? Yeesh, tech to the rescue, questions of our times.

Floyd: On the surface; left fueled.
Sunderland, etc. …UK: Clearly right fueled—Nigel Farage is the Trump of the UK. Huge immigrant phobia guy, credited with Brexit (which some say has devastated towns like Sunderland (had to strike an “exception” deal to keep Nissan there)
Both had said thugs/opportunists fueling the chaos
SVB: No riots but social media jet fueled, not sober Walter Cronkite (or Jimmy Stewart), on point. Some have been wondering lately if a recession might happen due to similar market panic. Paul Krugman of the NY Times, yesterday cited “private surveys and a general buzz” as basis for the Fed to do an emergency half percent rate cut. Huh? He’s not much better than Musk.

(3) disparate reader comments below—from NY Times. The middle one—TL–caught my ear.

Link to story about the 17 yr. old—from The Times of London

-D

The UK riots continue to be a huge story. Anti-immigrant sentiment festers in Britain. It seems possible that the British are even more insular, xenophobic, and racist than the American public.

And that’s a low bar.

From what I’ve read about the recent elections, the Conservatives enacted a painful economic austerity on the British populace, starting years ago, with the global 2008 recession. Government services—including but not limited to the National Health Service—have been cut. Courts, jails, police, unemployment offices, lunch programs, social services of all kinds, all cut mercilessly.

But we don’t see rioters demanding more government spending on social services! We see them rioting against the concept of immigration, and, in some cases, against immigrants themselves.

I read an article which patiently explained to us, and to those British dullards, how immigration is a net positive for the UK economy. Immigrants’ test scores are better than the natives’. Immigrants create businesses and jobs. Etc, etc…

I don’t think the rioters want to hear it. Just like Americans ticked off about the economy cannot be disabused of their opinion, no matter how great GDP growth is.

The new Labor Prime Minister has a background as a prosecutor (hmm, that sounds familiar and promising). He has broad support for putting down the violence. But the anti-immigrant far right vitriol has clearly found a pot to simmer in.

From what I’ve read, Starmer has no plans to reinstate the UK welfare state. He’s going to model himself after Tony Blair and govern from the middle. British liberals are despondent that their leader will actually attempt to retain power rather than showering the nation with progressive blessings.

It sounds like what they really need is an economic boom. A tax cut may be in order—but not one as absurd as Liz Truss’s handout to the wealthy. Starmer has got to get things moving economically in the UK. If he can do that, the far Right whack jobs will lose their audience.

Mark M.

I’ve read that there’s a long history of rioting in the UK that has nothing comparable in the US. We have had race riots (in the 60’s and to a lesser extent the George Floyd uprisings), but they are infrequent and usually in response to extreme government oppression. The Brits will seemingly riot at the slightest pretext, like a dubious foul call at a rivalry football match. In fact, rioting is almost a sport in itself over there. I suspect these riots will peter out, much like the brawls between Mods and Rockers ( a little Quadraphenia nostalgia anyone?).

Mark O.

I’m dressed right for a beach fight

But I just can’t explain

Why that uncertain feeling is still

Here in my brain…

“Cut My Hair” for Quadrophenia–Pete Townsend

Yes, vg point. And let’s not forget the LA riots after the acquittal of the cops who beat Rodney King. Same kind of deal— outrageous racism by the justice system. And we waited with bated breath, was it last summer?, for the verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial.

I think the Russians (and the Soviets before them) loved making political hay over British riots.

Mark M.

Mods and Rockers! Nice pull. A film so enhanced by hallucinogens. Jets and Sharks (West Side Story), has been my go to…different context tho (gritty gray rock opera vs technicolor Broadway hit).

Methinks me-bots are a tad too dismissive of the rising worldwide tide of immigrant phobia/racism. Now retired, I long for those simple days of corporate DEI training where we were taught not to judge people by their frizzy hair. (I’m serious, this was a big preachy theme—darker skinned women who basically had a fro, or big curly hair. I always thought they looked great…totally befuddled how this was a teaching moment. I guess a lot of maga minded folk (and regular folk too I s’pose) feel threatened by women of color with big hair.)

Nice piece Mark…lobbing in: The Economist steady refrain that Brexit, a phobic moment with long term harm—like, say, electing a narcissist populist–has hurt the economy in many ways…death by a 1000 cuts.

-D.

Good point, DS, about the raging worldwide issue. It’s definitely one of the major problems that governments will deal with in our kids’ lifetimes. And it is already being exacerbated by climate change.

One point that maybe isn’t well known. The last big reform of legal immigration was passed in the US in the late ‘60s. And, because it allows “chain migration” (family members), it has led to a legal immigration boom similar in size to the days of Ellis Island in the early 1900s. This is why our country looks so different today.

We have all seen it. Milwaukee has a Muslim quarter, for chrissakes, something not even imagined in days of yore when we played tackle football on asphalt playgrounds. There weren’t all of these Indian doctors, or ANY people in turbans, back in the day. And those are just superficial observations.

This actually is one of the targets of Stephen Miller and the anti-immigration cult around Trump. They bleat about the border, but they also want to eliminate or at least throttle down legal immigration.

I’m a libtard through and through, so I don’t really see the point of this. Immigrants, legal or not, come here to work. Now, there is some impact of this influx upon wages at the lower end of the scale. But this is the land of opportunity. Those who work— immigrant or native— not only succeed, but get promoted. So I think that that economic hit is “worth” all the cultural and personal enrichment that we get in return. This might be an elitist view, however. Others’ mileage may vary.

Mark M.

Hmmm. Is this worldwide xenophobia related to the rise of far-right leaders like Marine Le Pen in France, Meroni in Italy and other European countries? And the U.S.? Here the conservatism (at least the most extreme elements) seems intrinsically linked to Christian Nationalism which is deeply rooted in racism. By the way, see the documentary In Bad Faith to get a comprehensive history of Christian Nationalism and its links to The Heritage Foundation, Hillsdale College, and Project 2025.

America is unique in its particular brand of racism; I think its paranoia about immigration is another animal entirely and, like England’s, is rooted in economic fears.

I wonder about these darker aspects of human nature in a sociological context. Is this sort of tribalism a cyclical human occurrence manifested in pogroms, the Inquisition, witch trials, the Holocaust and other landmarks of humanity? Is the “Us and Them” mentality so deeply rooted in our DNA we’ll never outgrow it? Jets and Sharks, Montagues and Capulets, Mods and Rockers, and now Red and Blue.

Mark’s right that Snaky Stephen Miller and the Trumpers are deliberately cultivating those divides and limiting immigration. I also agree that most immigrant families I’ve worked with through MPS, including Mexicans, Somalis, Afghanis, Salvadorans, Hmong, Albanians, and Nigerians (particularly international teachers who’ve come here to work) savor the chance to be here. They’re here to work for their families. A lot of them send money home to the mother country.

Sorry for rambling a bit.

Excellent rambling Geoff. And, from Kenosha, I appreciate the real McCoy.